Chaos

[This story contains spoilers from “Brett Coyote’s Last Stand,” the season two finale of Platonic.]

Seth Rogen and Rose Byrne were never planning to make a second season of Platonic. In 2020, when they initially agreed to reunite with their Neighbors director Nicholas Stoller and his wife Francesca Delbanco on a new Apple TV+ comedy series, Rogen and Byrne believed the creators were interested in writing an anthology series about different kinds of platonic relationships.

The premise that Stoller and Delbanco had initially pitched and sold to Apple was built around one season that would follow Rogen and Byrne’s characters as they reconnected in their 40s after a painful falling out, and subsequent seasons would feature entirely different stories and characters. But midway through the making of the first season, Stoller and Delbanco — who realized they were having way too much fun with the actors to let them go right away — decided to ask Rogen and Byrne if they would consider making more of the show together. (Spoiler alert: They said yes.)

The offer seemed almost too good to be true, but Rogen and Byrne, who are both executive producers, wanted to make sure there would be enough meat on the bone for a potential second season. As Rogen puts it, “Were they just able to come up with more ideas that seemed like they were worth telling, and could they come up with ways to make the characters worse off?”

The answer was a resounding yes. “It’s like a de-evolution. That’s much better for comedy than evolving, generally speaking,” Rogen tells The Hollywood Reporter in a joint interview with Byrne. Stoller and Delbanco “somehow found a way to [put] us both in worse positions than we were last season. [The characters are] even more dysfunctional, which I thought was very funny and very smart.”

By the end of the first season, Byrne’s Sylvia, a stay-at-home mother of three who had unsuccessfully attempted to reenter the workforce as a lawyer, successfully rekindled her friendship with Rogen’s Will, whose decision to marry his now-ex-wife had previously driven a wedge between him and Sylvia.

The second season finds Sylvia wanting to be supportive of Will’s decisions, and even volunteering to oversee his lavish second wedding to his boss, restaurant chain CEO Jenna (Rachel Rosenbloom), as the main event planner. But when Will — who has always been a little skittish about commitment — begins to have second thoughts about the engagement, Sylvia can’t help but give her two cents, especially after Will reveals that he and Jenna are rarely intimate together.

Will and Jenna end their engagement at their ill-fated wedding at the end of episode four, and the two exes get along as well as can be expected for the next six episodes (i.e., not well). In the finale, Jenna sends Will a letter informing him of a non-compete clause in his original employment agreement, preventing him from opening his “Shitty Little Bar.” To skirt that little legal issue, Sylvia agrees to be the public face of Will’s new bar, and the two friends will now have to go into business together.

In a chaotic chat with THR, Rogen and Byrne break down the evolution of Sylvia and Will’s best friendship (and whether they think that relationship can survive the demands of starting a small business), how their own working relationship has deepened since the Neighbors films — and the likelihood of Byrne popping up on Rogen’s other Apple TV+ series, The Studio. (You know, the one with 23 Emmy nominations and 13 wins.)

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Platonic cleverly taps into a kind of malaise that seems to happen around middle age, when you’re trying to decide what else you want out of your life. How would you describe your characters’ inner conflict — and the resolution of that conflict — over the course of this second season? What do you think they are both really searching for?

SETH ROGEN The same thing any of us are looking for — just some stability, sense of purpose and companionship, and all that.

ROSE BYRNE Sylvia in the first season was really deep in a midlife crisis of trying to get in the workforce, and this season she’s in the workforce, but it’s not exactly where she wanted or what she thought it would be. Her ability to have more of a typical friendship with Will is still just out of her reach. She’s too opinionated, too controlling, too possessive — all these sorts of funny, crazy characteristics she has. I really enjoyed seeing [how] Luke Macfarlane’s character Charlie spirals out of control; that’s something I’ve seen in couples many times when one person’s really going through something and the roles reverse, and the other person who’s usually the rock has to change their role.

The show’s really relatable in many ways, but it has a very light touch, which I think people really appreciate. My friends just so enjoyed when it came out and were like, “This is exactly what I need to watch right now.” Nothing made me happier than to hear that.

ROGEN It’s all about finding specific storylines that reflect problems people who are in their middle age are experiencing, and doing them in ways that feel like they’re not repetitive. But part of the fun of a show like this is you know the characters well, and I don’t know if sweeping arcs are necessarily a key to comedy like this, rather than being stuck in your patterns. These characters have a sort of imposter syndrome, a desperation to feel like they appear to have their life together, even though they don’t necessarily. That kind of stuff manifests in countless ways, but is at its core is very simple and relatable.

How do you think your characters have evolved? What’s different about the way they interact this season?

BYRNE It was a little more heightened, to be honest. It felt like she was more hyped up, but I think they really try to have a typical friendship. They say it out loud, like, “We are going to have dinner. We are going to do normal things. We are going to strive to do it all.”

ROGEN They’re really trying to grow up this season. They’re trying to really be responsible. Will wants to be married. He wants to have a corporate job. He wants to live the life of a real man who does real things. But then he winds up living in her garage, so [that shows life] doesn’t all go the way you want it to at the end of the day.

BYRNE Sylvia’s husband Charlie quits his job and writes a novel called Brett Coyote.

ROGEN Life throws you curveballs!

What do you think are the core personal problems that one of these best friends is uniquely qualified to help the other with?

BYRNE I don’t know if Sylvia is helping, but she does tell the truth. Will’s in this relationship. They’re not having any physical contact. (Laughs.) He’s embarking on a marriage with no intimacy, and she’s trying to hold her tongue and then eventually she’s like, “This isn’t going to last, and I know it’s hard to hear.” And she does it in the worst way. I mean, she blows it up, but it’s a TV show. It’s got to be dramatic! I think there’s something about the truth, a truth teller in your life, that is very confronting. But you do need to hear it sometimes. It sucks, but it’s kind of reality.

Both of you are seasoned physical comedians who were given a lot to play with in the first season — the ketamine-induced drug trip, the running gag of throwing motorized scooters. The action this season, by comparison, feels more visceral. What was the wildest gag for both of you to shoot?

BYRNE [Canoeing in] the L.A. River was pretty funny.

ROGEN The L.A. River was a real adventure.

BYRNE (To Rogen) I didn’t have to do much, but you really did.

ROGEN Yeah, I was drinking from the river. I don’t remember what was used in the end. We did a whole cacophony of things that I found in my mouth after drinking from the river, from feathers to condoms —

BYRNE Oh, my God.

ROGEN But I don’t know what they used in the end. I can’t remember what made it. We were laughing pretty hard as we were filming.

BYRNE I certainly thought it was funny.

ROGEN I think Carla [Gallo, who plays Sylvia’s best friend, Katie] projectile vomiting all over the car was pretty funny as well. I remember there was a scene where we were getting chased around by a dog that was really funny to shoot —

BYRNE That’s right!

ROGEN And really chaotic and actually started to become the scene we were shooting! It was one of those things where the dog would not stop jumping in the pool when I was jumping in the pool.

Will accidentally hitting Jenna’s father in the eye with a golf ball — and him losing that eyeball — was the most gruesome.

ROGEN I just remember thinking that was very funny, and the stuff in the hospital [where Jenna, after nearly losing her father, is suddenly overcome with the urge to have sex with Will] was very funny. I remember laughing a lot as we were shooting some of those scenes in the hospital where Rose was getting nauseous as I was explaining and describing what happened to his eyeball.

BYRNE That’s so stupid! (Laughs.)

Rose, in the finale, you were blasted in the face with a large cooler of Will’s new beer, which ended up all over Sylvia’s backyard. I don’t even know how else to describe what happened to her in that scene, but it sure is funny to watch.

BYRNE Reading it, I felt the same. I was like, “What does this mean and look like?” It wasn’t until I got there [that I figured it out] — and honestly that [scene] was a little bit technical. It was so overwhelming, the physicality of what I had to do, and then we were so wet the whole time. But I kind of liked that you can’t think about what you’re doing, so you’re focused on how you’re physically coping with it. It was ridiculous.

What exactly was being sprayed at you guys in that finale scene? Was it beer?

BYRNE Oh my God, what was it? I mean, it looked like beer, but it wasn’t beer.

ROGEN It might have been tea.

BYRNE It must have been a supplement, like a tea or a water —

ROGEN Like a water steeped in something.

BYRNE Exactly. But that’s a really good question. It didn’t smell like beer.

ROGEN It wasn’t sugary or sticky.

BYRNE Yeah, it didn’t have that kind of texture to it.

ROGEN It was pretty gross, though.

BYRNE It was gross. I just remember it was really muddy, and then I was wet all day. It was fine though — anything for a joke! It was actually really hot, so it was fine. The weather worked out.

So much of the conflict in Sylvia and Will’s relationship can be boiled down to the argument they have in the finale, after they are both drenched in beer. They are telling each other all of these hard truths, but at the same time, there is no one else in their lives who is willing to admit those truths to themselves. What was your experience of shooting that high-octane fight, and what do you think that argument actually says about the state of their relationship?

ROGEN When you’re friends with people in any kind of relationship, there’s a constant balance to be found between: what do I accept versus what do I try to change, and what do I just ignore and what do I speak up about? Especially as you enter your middle age, sometimes you try to present one thing while you’re actually living another. I think they are very perceptive of one another and kind of see through all that.

That is their constant struggle — here’s what my friend is hoping I’ll see in them, and here’s what I’m actually seeing, and do I say [anything] or not? And, do I point out that they don’t seem as happy as they’re pretending to be, or that their relationship isn’t as good as they’re acting like it is? Finding those boundaries and what you should say and what you shouldn’t say is their struggle, and [they’re] learning what is actually productive and helpful and what is not.

BYRNE I remember shooting that scene and thinking, “Oh, this is the show. This is what we do. This is when we’re at our best — [when we’re engaged in] some crazy physical thing and then a weird emotional fight, but that’s still funny. This is a ridiculous fight about calling out each other, but we’re still trying to be funny with it,” which is a fine line. It’s hard to do that.

This show is literally called Platonic, so it is a clear signal to the audience that Will and Sylvia will be nothing more than friends, even if audiences may find themselves rooting for something more.

BYRNE Very clear.

What have you wanted to capture about platonic male-female relationships through deepening the dynamic between Will and Sylvia?

BYRNE We had done Neighbors, and we’d played a very happy couple that was a little bit immature, but there’s a sweetness and a natural affection that you bring to each other and the role. And then when we started Platonic, we cut a clear boundary. I was like, “Oh, Seth’s a little bit mean!” It does change the dynamic.

ROGEN (Laughs.) Yeah, a little bit more mean.

BYRNE But that’s funny! It’s funny in a different way. I guess people do root for characters in different ways, but it was always really trying to be definitively clear with the audience that that’s not what we’re rooting for. We’re not rooting for them to get together. We just want them to stay friends. I’ve never seen that on TV. I’ve never seen a show or a movie [where the audience is], like, “I want these guys to stay friends.”

ROGEN You are usually rooting for them to get together.

BYRNE It’s quietly a little bit unusual —

ROGEN Because of society, man!

With the Neighbors movies and now Platonic, you have worked together for the better part of the last dozen years. Looking back, how do you think your friendship and working relationship has evolved over time, and what do you think has stayed the same?

BYRNE I think we work very similarly.

ROGEN Yeah.

BYRNE It’s a very easy time on set, and we have a great working relationship. I live in New York. Seth is in LA. I am so fond of Lauren, Seth’s wife, who’s extraordinary.

ROGEN I’m a little afraid of Bobby [Cannavale, Byrne’s longtime partner] —

BYRNE Just a little bit!

ROGEN But I have to wrap my head around it. We’ve made progress, I’d say in recent years. (Laughter.)

BYRNE But I feel so grateful to have a great friendship and working relationship with someone over so long — and with Nick and Francesca, that’s really the other huge half of this conversation. They’re creating this work for us. Nick gave me my break in comedy. Seth’s known Nick since he was a teenager, so that’s all lovely.

But has anything about the way you work together changed over the years?

ROGEN It’s pretty similar, honestly. We met each other when we were in the swing of our careers. We already worked a certain way and were on set a certain way, you know what I mean? So I think it’s refreshing that it’s the same in a lot of ways, and that not a lot has changed, and that we fall into the same rhythms and patterns that we’ve always had with one another.

BYRNE And, just like anything, if you clock more hours [together], you get to know each other more.

ROGEN There’s a real ease to it. Sometimes there’s days where you’re just sitting in a car with someone for 12 hours a day [for a shoot]. And with Rose, it’s lovely. There’s times where I’m just like, “Oh my God, I have to sit with this person in a car for 12 hours. What are we going to talk about? It’s going to be so awkward. What are we going to do? It’s going to be so uncomfortable.” I never have that problem on this show.

BYRNE No, we’re beyond that. And it’s the same with Carla Gallo, who plays Katie. She’s an old friend of Seth’s.

ROGEN It’s really easy with her around because she does not stop talking. (Laughter.)

The season ends with Will and Sylvia agreeing to go into business with each other — Will is going to run the operations from behind the scenes, while Sylvia will be the public face of their beer-slash-wine company. Do you think their friendship can withstand the stressful realities of running a business together? [Note: Platonic has not yet been renewed for season three.]

ROGEN No!

BYRNE No! Absolutely not! (Laughter.)

ROGEN It’ll be really rough —

BYRNE Chaos!

ROGEN I think it’ll be very bad for both their relationship and their business.

BYRNE Huge fail, I predict. I can’t even believe they’re having the conversation. But hopefully it’ll be funny?

Have you had any conversations with the rest of the creative team about what the next chapter of this story would actually look like?

BYRNE No, not yet. Nick and Francesca really are the brains and the kind of drive behind the ideas, and they come to us with them and [we as executive producers] bat them around a little bit. But I hope that there’s more to tell. I feel like these characters are really funny and fun, and like any show, you want to return because you want to spend time with them and you want to spend time in that world.

For now, it appears that Seth will be preoccupied with The Studio. Rose, what did you think of Seth’s other Apple TV+ comedy and the way that it satirizes Hollywood?

BYRNE Look, I heard it has been well-received, and I heard there were some Em-mys, is that how you say it? (Laughs.) I feel like I should go on the press tour at this point! Well, Bobby nearly did a thing on it, which is really cute.

ROGEN I know! We tried to get Bobby, but —

BYRNE Scheduling craziness. But I’m such a fan. I loved it. He was writing it [during Platonic] season one. I remember we were chatting about it a lot, and he was describing it to me and I was like, “Wow, this is such another creative extension for you to develop this. You’ve been in this industry for so long, since you’re a teenager, and it’s a wild life to have lived, and this is a version of all of that.” So, day one, I was like, “I want to see this! It’s awesome.”

Seth, what are the chances that we will see Rose — or Bobby! — pop up in the next season of The Studio?

BYRNE I think he’s getting pitched a lot of people.

ROGEN No, it’s a good question!

BYRNE I think he’s getting a lot of calls. He might need a break [from me].

ROGEN We’re getting some weird ones! (Laughter.)

BYRNE You know what? You need to miss somebody. You need to miss them and then want to come back.

ROGEN Not at all. That is not my philosophy. Mine is to quadruple down on someone and never let go.

BYRNE You gotta yearn! You gotta yearn!

ROGEN I don’t want to spoil [the show], but…

BYRNE I do! (Laughter.)

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The first two seasons of Platonic are now streaming on Apple TV+.